All things related to multicast

["Marshall Eubanks" <>]

On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 17:57:31 -0700 (PDT)
 
<>
 wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Sep 2003, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 14:35:53 -0700 (PDT)
> >  Greg Shepherd 
> > <>
> >  wrote:
> > > 
> > > On Thu, 4 Sep 2003, Marshall Eubanks wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 16:03:28 -0400
> > > >  Jon Zeeff 
> > > > <>
> > > >  wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > How can I find out what are the most popular multicast uses on the
> > > > > Internet? Or perhaps on Abilene (where netflow data is available).
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > For example, I assume that some of the UofOregon traffic is popular,
> but
> > > I
> > > > > don't know for sure.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ever since ASM RTCP receiver reports withered and died, no one really
> > > knows.
> > > > I am not really sure why this happened. Many people think that having
> > > > each member of a large group send to every other member is not a good
> > > thing,
> > > > but I do not think that it was caused by complaints.
> > > 
> > > I recall and early 'complaint' was during the NetAid broadcast. The 
> > > issue
> > > was not the sending/recieving of the packets, but the potential 
> > > explosion
> > > of state in the routers. Every sending 'receiver' would create an S,G
> > > entry in the network. We were targeting 10K's of S's for just this one 
> > > G.
> > > It became clear that any large audience adoption of mcast would create 
> > > an
> > > unmanagable amount of network S,G state IF ASM RTCP were the receiver
> > > reporting mechanism.
> > > 
> > > > My experiments indicate that I do not get RR's for more than a tiny
> > > > fraction (<< 1/10th) of the audience, but what that fraction is
> > > > is unknown. Most times all I really know is whether or not
> > > > I have outbound state.
> > > 
> > > Marshall, does your app use mcast of ucast for receiver reports?
> > 
> > The MCTPlayer does send back unicast RR's here, but its use has never been
> more
> > than a small fraction of the total usage of our MP3 channels (about 1/8th
> > of reported usage, which is of course not the full usage).
> > 
> > Our new video multicasts use Quicktime (and Real, as soon as we get
> > the bugs out), and those use standard RTCP.
> 
> 'standard' RTCP being mcast?

Quicktime does a pretty good job with rtcp reports except that I found 
recently
that, for
MPEG-4 only, the TTL was set equal to one, which does cut down on the traffic.

Real sends perfectly formatted RTCP RR's, but for some reason it sends them 
_very_ infrequently - maybe once every 15 minutes or less. Again, it
keeps the traffic down - and maybe some get eaten because of the low 
frequency.
RealOne rarely if ever sends "TOOL" reports; I only know this because of
in-house tests.

You might find this interesting - it's from one day of the IETF-57 multicasts.

[tme@hendrix
 dump]$ more ietf57.report.full
 
 rtcp_parse : Information From RTCP Reports
 
 For the Period From  Wed Jul 16 06:12:42 2003  to  Thu Jul 17 10:53:30 2003
 Total Duration =   1.20 Days 
 
 There were  47  Separate IP Addresses Encountered 
 There were  46  Separate Receivers Encountered 
 There were  8  Separate Sources Encountered 
 There were  19  Separate TOOLS Encountered 
 
 Overall Packet Loss Statistics 
 
 There were  58204 Loss Reports Encountered 
 Of these    66.49 Per Cent Had Zero Loss 
 
 Average packet loss fraction = 11.85 per cent 
 Maximum packet loss fraction = 99.61 per cent 
 RMS     packet loss fraction = 19.94 per cent 
 
 Source Information : 
 
                          81.160.32.10 used port 64390 :  13211 records read 
                           81.160.32.2 used port 61010 :  23667 records read 
                           81.160.32.4 used port 49470 :  13036 records read 
                           81.160.32.6 used port 61030 :   4650 records read 
                           81.160.32.7 used port 61041 :     23 records read 
                           81.160.32.8 used port 61020 :  38621 records read 
                   lagavulin.cc.tut.fi used port 61031 :      2 records read 
                     drift3.uninett.no used port 61031 :      3 records read 
 
 Receiver Information : 
 
                         RW-18.MIT.EDU used port 64391 :    765 records read 
           dhcp-64-101-64-92.cisco.com used port 49471 :    327 records read 
                          81.160.32.10 used port 64390 :     16 records read 
                          81.160.32.12 used port 32798 :  18725 records read 
                           81.160.32.2 used port 61010 :     15 records read 
                           81.160.32.4 used port 49470 :  13844 records read 
                           81.160.32.6 used port 61030 :   1873 records read 
                           81.160.32.7 used port  1033 :   1900 records read 
                           81.160.32.8 used port 61020 :   6446 records read 
                          81.160.96.41 used port  1229 :   1448 records read 
                     adam.cs.ucl.ac.uk used port 33000 :      2 records read 
 D-128-208-20-224.dhcp4.washington.edu used port 61020 :      1 records read 
                  d125-137.uoregon.edu used port  2111 :      3 records read 
                     tesla.uoregon.edu used port  1040 :    219 records read 
                   iceberg.uoregon.edu used port 61030 :    772 records read 
                   icecast.uoregon.edu used port 61011 :    799 records read 
                   c84.al.cl.cam.ac.uk used port  1107 :     19 records read 
                     klap.utdallas.edu used port 61030 :    269 records read 
                      telstar12.gmd.de used port 32797 :    141 records read 
        tikal.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE used port 39342 :     52 records read 
                   samipelt.atm.tut.fi used port 61030 :      1 records read 
                      kongi.atm.tut.fi used port 61030 :      1 records read 
                        130.237.95.246 used port 61041 :      6 records read 
                         130.237.95.69 used port 58983 :      6 records read 
                minotaure.ipv6.lip6.fr used port  1108 :      2 records read 
             churchward.erg.abdn.ac.uk used port 49979 :     19 records read 
           arcangel-mac.erg.abdn.ac.uk used port 49470 :      2 records read 
               cna4-044.cna.depaul.edu used port 61010 :   2375 records read 
dhcp-peg3-vl30-144-254-7-119.cisco.com used port 61011 :     13 records read 
dhcp-peg3-vl30-144-254-7-137.cisco.com used port 64391 :   2383 records read 
 dhcp-peg3-vl30-144-254-7-65.cisco.com used port 61011 :    655 records read 
dhcp-bru-peg2-vl26-144-254-9-170.cisco.com used port 61011 :    241 records 
read 
                     mobi4.tmit.bme.hu used port  1055 :      2 records read 
                     drift3.uninett.no used port 40604 :      1 records read 
                    sapporo.uninett.no used port 33249 :      5 records read 
                sverresborg.uninett.no used port 32827 :      1 records read 
                   laptop13.cs.utk.edu used port 61031 :   1866 records read 
                  valley.aarnet.edu.au used port 64391 :   9840 records read 
                     dhcp181.heanet.ie used port  4635 :      1 records read 
                     dhcp183.heanet.ie used port 61010 :      3 records read 
                          brage.nta.no used port  1051 :      2 records read 
                       jazz.rap.prd.fr used port  4191 :      2 records read 
                  dhcp124.dante.org.uk used port  1079 :    636 records read 
                visio2.univ-paris13.fr used port  1099 :      9 records read 
              prt80-cc.univ-paris13.fr used port  1669 :      6 records read 
                   cc8.univ-paris13.fr used port  1940 :      5 records read 
 
 tool               Cisco IP/TV Server (3.4.0) was used by      1 addresses 
 tool                           Illegal String was used by      2 addresses 
 tool     IP/TV Viewer (3.2), version 3.2.24.0 was used by      2 addresses 
 tool  IP/TV Viewer (3.4.20), version 3.4.20.0 was used by      1 addresses 
 tool     IP/TV Viewer (3.4), version 3.4.14.0 was used by      3 addresses 
 tool                QuickTime Streaming/4.1.1 was used by      3 addresses 
 tool                QuickTime Streaming/5.0.2 was used by      2 addresses 
 tool                  QuickTime Streaming/6.3 was used by      2 addresses 
 tool                 vic-2.8/NetBSD-1.6U-i386 was used by      1 addresses 
 tool                  vic-2.8/SunOS-5.8-sun4u was used by      1 addresses 
 tool      vic-2.8ucl-1.0/Windows NT-4.0-intel was used by      1 addresses 
 tool         vic-2.8ucl-1.1.3/SunOS-5.8-sun4u was used by      1 addresses 
 tool   vic-2.8ucl-1.1.3/Windows 95-4.10-intel was used by      1 addresses 
 tool    vic-2.8ucl-1.1.3/Windows NT-5.1-intel was used by      3 addresses 
 tool      vic-2.8ucl1.1.5/Linux-2.4.20-8-i686 was used by      1 addresses 
 tool    vic-2.8ucl1.1.5/Windows 95-4.10-intel was used by      1 addresses 
 tool          vic-2.8ucl4/Linux-2.4.7-10-i686 was used by      1 addresses 
 tool           vic-5.2/Linux-2.4.20-18.7-i686 was used by      1 addresses 
 tool           vic-5.2/Linux-2.4.20-18.9-i686 was used by      1 addresses 
 
                         RW-18.MIT.EDU used tool
Illegal String 
           dhcp-64-101-64-92.cisco.com used tool                QuickTime
Streaming/5.0.2 
                          81.160.32.10 used tool  IP/TV Viewer (3.4.20), 
version
3.4.20.0 
                          81.160.32.12 used tool    vic-2.8ucl-1.1.3/Windows
NT-5.1-intel 
                           81.160.32.4 used tool     IP/TV Viewer (3.2), 
version
3.2.24.0 
                           81.160.32.6 used tool               Cisco IP/TV
Server (3.4.0) 
                           81.160.32.7 used tool
vic-5.2/Linux-2.4.20-18.9-i686 
                           81.160.32.8 used tool     IP/TV Viewer (3.4), 
version
3.4.14.0 
                          81.160.96.41 used tool    vic-2.8ucl1.1.5/Windows
95-4.10-intel 
                     adam.cs.ucl.ac.uk used tool
Illegal String 
                     tesla.uoregon.edu used tool
vic-5.2/Linux-2.4.20-18.7-i686 
                   iceberg.uoregon.edu used tool     IP/TV Viewer (3.4), 
version
3.4.14.0 
                   icecast.uoregon.edu used tool      vic-2.8ucl-1.0/Windows
NT-4.0-intel 
                   c84.al.cl.cam.ac.uk used tool
vic-2.8ucl4/Linux-2.4.7-10-i686 
                     klap.utdallas.edu used tool     IP/TV Viewer (3.2), 
version
3.2.24.0 
                      telstar12.gmd.de used tool
vic-2.8ucl1.1.5/Linux-2.4.20-8-i686 
        tikal.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE used tool
vic-2.8/SunOS-5.8-sun4u 
                        130.237.95.246 used tool                  QuickTime
Streaming/6.3 
                         130.237.95.69 used tool
vic-2.8/NetBSD-1.6U-i386 
             churchward.erg.abdn.ac.uk used tool
vic-2.8ucl-1.1.3/SunOS-5.8-sun4u 
               cna4-044.cna.depaul.edu used tool     IP/TV Viewer (3.4), 
version
3.4.14.0 
dhcp-peg3-vl30-144-254-7-119.cisco.com used tool                QuickTime
Streaming/4.1.1 
dhcp-peg3-vl30-144-254-7-137.cisco.com used tool                QuickTime
Streaming/5.0.2 
 dhcp-peg3-vl30-144-254-7-65.cisco.com used tool                QuickTime
Streaming/4.1.1 
dhcp-bru-peg2-vl26-144-254-9-170.cisco.com used tool                QuickTime
Streaming/4.1.1 
                   laptop13.cs.utk.edu used tool                  QuickTime
Streaming/6.3 
                  dhcp124.dante.org.uk used tool    vic-2.8ucl-1.1.3/Windows
NT-5.1-intel 
                visio2.univ-paris13.fr used tool   vic-2.8ucl-1.1.3/Windows
95-4.10-intel 
                   cc8.univ-paris13.fr used tool    vic-2.8ucl-1.1.3/Windows
NT-5.1-intel 
 

> 
> Greg
>  
> > Marshall
> > 
> > > 
> > > Greg
> > > 
> > > > Marshall
> > > >
> > > >
> > > 
> > 
>