All things related to multicast

["Richard Mavrogeanes" <>]

I agree with Marshall's eariler observation about delivering the multicast 
viewer via a web page.  We did this recently for Bob Ballard's Black Sea 
expedition and we were able to determine MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 live video 
viewship via both web logs, conventional "hit counters" on the pages, and a 
variety of log tools give nice statistical analysis.  I find this a very 
convenient method also because we often must unicast content via the public 
Internert too, and it is useful to have one method (total viewers = web page 
1 hits + web page 2 hits).  Obviously, it does not account for non-web page 
viewers, but you can certainly encourage viewing via a web page by not 
advertising SAP.
 
Rich Mavrogeanes
Founder
VBrick Systems, Inc.
 
 

        -----Original Message----- 
        From: Marshall Eubanks 
[mailto:]
 
        Sent: Thu 9/4/2003 8:34 PM 
        To: 
;
 Marshall Eubanks 
        Cc: Greg Shepherd; Jon Zeeff; 

 
        Subject: Re: multicast stats
        
        

        On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 17:57:31 -0700 (PDT) 
         
<>
 wrote: 
        > On Thu, 4 Sep 2003, Marshall Eubanks wrote: 
        > 
        > > On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 14:35:53 -0700 (PDT) 
        > >  Greg Shepherd 
<>
 wrote: 
        > > > 
        > > > On Thu, 4 Sep 2003, Marshall Eubanks wrote: 
        > > > 
        > > > > On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 16:03:28 -0400 
        > > > >  Jon Zeeff 
<>
 wrote: 
        > > > > > 
        > > > > > How can I find out what are the most popular multicast uses 
on the 
        > > > > > Internet? Or perhaps on Abilene (where netflow data is 
available). 
        > > > > > 
        > > > > > 
        > > > > > For example, I assume that some of the UofOregon traffic is 
popular, 
        > but 
        > > > I 
        > > > > > don't know for sure. 
        > > > > > 
        > > > > 
        > > > > Ever since ASM RTCP receiver reports withered and died, no 
one really 
        > > > knows. 
        > > > > I am not really sure why this happened. Many people think 
that having 
        > > > > each member of a large group send to every other member is 
not a good 
        > > > thing, 
        > > > > but I do not think that it was caused by complaints. 
        > > > 
        > > > I recall and early 'complaint' was during the NetAid broadcast. 
The issue 
        > > > was not the sending/recieving of the packets, but the potential 
explosion 
        > > > of state in the routers. Every sending 'receiver' would create 
an S,G 
        > > > entry in the network. We were targeting 10K's of S's for just 
this one G. 
        > > > It became clear that any large audience adoption of mcast would 
create an 
        > > > unmanagable amount of network S,G state IF ASM RTCP were the 
receiver 
        > > > reporting mechanism. 
        > > > 
        > > > > My experiments indicate that I do not get RR's for more than 
a tiny 
        > > > > fraction (<< 1/10th) of the audience, but what that fraction 
is 
        > > > > is unknown. Most times all I really know is whether or not 
        > > > > I have outbound state. 
        > > > 
        > > > Marshall, does your app use mcast of ucast for receiver 
reports? 
        > > 
        > > The MCTPlayer does send back unicast RR's here, but its use has 
never been 
        > more 
        > > than a small fraction of the total usage of our MP3 channels 
(about 1/8th 
        > > of reported usage, which is of course not the full usage). 
        > > 
        > > Our new video multicasts use Quicktime (and Real, as soon as we 
get 
        > > the bugs out), and those use standard RTCP. 
        > 
        > 'standard' RTCP being mcast? 

        Quicktime does a pretty good job with rtcp reports except that I 
found recently 
        that, for 
        MPEG-4 only, the TTL was set equal to one, which does cut down on the 
traffic. 

        Real sends perfectly formatted RTCP RR's, but for some reason it 
sends them 
        _very_ infrequently - maybe once every 15 minutes or less. Again, it 
        keeps the traffic down - and maybe some get eaten because of the low 
frequency. 
        RealOne rarely if ever sends "TOOL" reports; I only know this because 
of 
        in-house tests. 

        You might find this interesting - it's from one day of the IETF-57 
multicasts. 

        
[tme@hendrix
 dump]$ more ietf57.report.full 
          
         rtcp_parse : Information From RTCP Reports 
          
         For the Period From  Wed Jul 16 06:12:42 2003  to  Thu Jul 17 
10:53:30 2003 
         Total Duration =   1.20 Days 
          
         There were  47  Separate IP Addresses Encountered 
         There were  46  Separate Receivers Encountered 
         There were  8  Separate Sources Encountered 
         There were  19  Separate TOOLS Encountered 
          
         Overall Packet Loss Statistics 
          
         There were  58204 Loss Reports Encountered 
         Of these    66.49 Per Cent Had Zero Loss 
          
         Average packet loss fraction = 11.85 per cent 
         Maximum packet loss fraction = 99.61 per cent 
         RMS     packet loss fraction = 19.94 per cent 
          
         Source Information : 
          
                                  81.160.32.10 used port 64390 :  13211 
records read 
                                   81.160.32.2 used port 61010 :  23667 
records read 
                                   81.160.32.4 used port 49470 :  13036 
records read 
                                   81.160.32.6 used port 61030 :   4650 
records read 
                                   81.160.32.7 used port 61041 :     23 
records read 
                                   81.160.32.8 used port 61020 :  38621 
records read 
                           lagavulin.cc.tut.fi used port 61031 :      2 
records read 
                             drift3.uninett.no used port 61031 :      3 
records read 
          
         Receiver Information : 
          
                                 RW-18.MIT.EDU used port 64391 :    765 
records read 
                   dhcp-64-101-64-92.cisco.com used port 49471 :    327 
records read 
                                  81.160.32.10 used port 64390 :     16 
records read 
                                  81.160.32.12 used port 32798 :  18725 
records read 
                                   81.160.32.2 used port 61010 :     15 
records read 
                                   81.160.32.4 used port 49470 :  13844 
records read 
                                   81.160.32.6 used port 61030 :   1873 
records read 
                                   81.160.32.7 used port  1033 :   1900 
records read 
                                   81.160.32.8 used port 61020 :   6446 
records read 
                                  81.160.96.41 used port  1229 :   1448 
records read 
                             adam.cs.ucl.ac.uk used port 33000 :      2 
records read 
         D-128-208-20-224.dhcp4.washington.edu used port 61020 :      1 
records read 
                          d125-137.uoregon.edu used port  2111 :      3 
records read 
                             tesla.uoregon.edu used port  1040 :    219 
records read 
                           iceberg.uoregon.edu used port 61030 :    772 
records read 
                           icecast.uoregon.edu used port 61011 :    799 
records read 
                           c84.al.cl.cam.ac.uk used port  1107 :     19 
records read 
                             klap.utdallas.edu used port 61030 :    269 
records read 
                              telstar12.gmd.de used port 32797 :    141 
records read 
                tikal.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE used port 39342 :     52 
records read 
                           samipelt.atm.tut.fi used port 61030 :      1 
records read 
                              kongi.atm.tut.fi used port 61030 :      1 
records read 
                                130.237.95.246 used port 61041 :      6 
records read 
                                 130.237.95.69 used port 58983 :      6 
records read 
                        minotaure.ipv6.lip6.fr used port  1108 :      2 
records read 
                     churchward.erg.abdn.ac.uk used port 49979 :     19 
records read 
                   arcangel-mac.erg.abdn.ac.uk used port 49470 :      2 
records read 
                       cna4-044.cna.depaul.edu used port 61010 :   2375 
records read 
        dhcp-peg3-vl30-144-254-7-119.cisco.com used port 61011 :     13 
records read 
        dhcp-peg3-vl30-144-254-7-137.cisco.com used port 64391 :   2383 
records read 
         dhcp-peg3-vl30-144-254-7-65.cisco.com used port 61011 :    655 
records read 
        dhcp-bru-peg2-vl26-144-254-9-170.cisco.com used port 61011 :    241 
records read 
                             mobi4.tmit.bme.hu used port  1055 :      2 
records read 
                             drift3.uninett.no used port 40604 :      1 
records read 
                            sapporo.uninett.no used port 33249 :      5 
records read 
                        sverresborg.uninett.no used port 32827 :      1 
records read 
                           laptop13.cs.utk.edu used port 61031 :   1866 
records read 
                          valley.aarnet.edu.au used port 64391 :   9840 
records read 
                             dhcp181.heanet.ie used port  4635 :      1 
records read 
                             dhcp183.heanet.ie used port 61010 :      3 
records read 
                                  brage.nta.no used port  1051 :      2 
records read 
                               jazz.rap.prd.fr used port  4191 :      2 
records read 
                          dhcp124.dante.org.uk used port  1079 :    636 
records read 
                        visio2.univ-paris13.fr used port  1099 :      9 
records read 
                      prt80-cc.univ-paris13.fr used port  1669 :      6 
records read 
                           cc8.univ-paris13.fr used port  1940 :      5 
records read 
          
         tool               Cisco IP/TV Server (3.4.0) was used by      1 
addresses 
         tool                           Illegal String was used by      2 
addresses 
         tool     IP/TV Viewer (3.2), version 3.2.24.0 was used by      2 
addresses 
         tool  IP/TV Viewer (3.4.20), version 3.4.20.0 was used by      1 
addresses 
         tool     IP/TV Viewer (3.4), version 3.4.14.0 was used by      3 
addresses 
         tool                QuickTime Streaming/4.1.1 was used by      3 
addresses 
         tool                QuickTime Streaming/5.0.2 was used by      2 
addresses 
         tool                  QuickTime Streaming/6.3 was used by      2 
addresses 
         tool                 vic-2.8/NetBSD-1.6U-i386 was used by      1 
addresses 
         tool                  vic-2.8/SunOS-5.8-sun4u was used by      1 
addresses 
         tool      vic-2.8ucl-1.0/Windows NT-4.0-intel was used by      1 
addresses 
         tool         vic-2.8ucl-1.1.3/SunOS-5.8-sun4u was used by      1 
addresses 
         tool   vic-2.8ucl-1.1.3/Windows 95-4.10-intel was used by      1 
addresses 
         tool    vic-2.8ucl-1.1.3/Windows NT-5.1-intel was used by      3 
addresses 
         tool      vic-2.8ucl1.1.5/Linux-2.4.20-8-i686 was used by      1 
addresses 
         tool    vic-2.8ucl1.1.5/Windows 95-4.10-intel was used by      1 
addresses 
         tool          vic-2.8ucl4/Linux-2.4.7-10-i686 was used by      1 
addresses 
         tool           vic-5.2/Linux-2.4.20-18.7-i686 was used by      1 
addresses 
         tool           vic-5.2/Linux-2.4.20-18.9-i686 was used by      1 
addresses 
          
                                 RW-18.MIT.EDU used tool 
        Illegal String 
                   dhcp-64-101-64-92.cisco.com used tool                
QuickTime 
        Streaming/5.0.2 
                                  81.160.32.10 used tool  IP/TV Viewer 
(3.4.20), version 
        3.4.20.0 
                                  81.160.32.12 used tool    
vic-2.8ucl-1.1.3/Windows 
        NT-5.1-intel 
                                   81.160.32.4 used tool     IP/TV Viewer 
(3.2), version 
        3.2.24.0 
                                   81.160.32.6 used tool               Cisco 
IP/TV 
        Server (3.4.0) 
                                   81.160.32.7 used tool 
        vic-5.2/Linux-2.4.20-18.9-i686 
                                   81.160.32.8 used tool     IP/TV Viewer 
(3.4), version 
        3.4.14.0 
                                  81.160.96.41 used tool    
vic-2.8ucl1.1.5/Windows 
        95-4.10-intel 
                             adam.cs.ucl.ac.uk used tool 
        Illegal String 
                             tesla.uoregon.edu used tool 
        vic-5.2/Linux-2.4.20-18.7-i686 
                           iceberg.uoregon.edu used tool     IP/TV Viewer 
(3.4), version 
        3.4.14.0 
                           icecast.uoregon.edu used tool      
vic-2.8ucl-1.0/Windows 
        NT-4.0-intel 
                           c84.al.cl.cam.ac.uk used tool 
        vic-2.8ucl4/Linux-2.4.7-10-i686 
                             klap.utdallas.edu used tool     IP/TV Viewer 
(3.2), version 
        3.2.24.0 
                              telstar12.gmd.de used tool 
        vic-2.8ucl1.1.5/Linux-2.4.20-8-i686 
                tikal.TechFak.Uni-Bielefeld.DE used tool 
        vic-2.8/SunOS-5.8-sun4u 
                                130.237.95.246 used tool                  
QuickTime 
        Streaming/6.3 
                                 130.237.95.69 used tool 
        vic-2.8/NetBSD-1.6U-i386 
                     churchward.erg.abdn.ac.uk used tool 
        vic-2.8ucl-1.1.3/SunOS-5.8-sun4u 
                       cna4-044.cna.depaul.edu used tool     IP/TV Viewer 
(3.4), version 
        3.4.14.0 
        dhcp-peg3-vl30-144-254-7-119.cisco.com used tool                
QuickTime 
        Streaming/4.1.1 
        dhcp-peg3-vl30-144-254-7-137.cisco.com used tool                
QuickTime 
        Streaming/5.0.2 
         dhcp-peg3-vl30-144-254-7-65.cisco.com used tool                
QuickTime 
        Streaming/4.1.1 
        dhcp-bru-peg2-vl26-144-254-9-170.cisco.com used tool                
QuickTime 
        Streaming/4.1.1 
                           laptop13.cs.utk.edu used tool                  
QuickTime 
        Streaming/6.3 
                          dhcp124.dante.org.uk used tool    
vic-2.8ucl-1.1.3/Windows 
        NT-5.1-intel 
                        visio2.univ-paris13.fr used tool   
vic-2.8ucl-1.1.3/Windows 
        95-4.10-intel 
                           cc8.univ-paris13.fr used tool    
vic-2.8ucl-1.1.3/Windows 
        NT-5.1-intel 
          

        > 
        > Greg 
        >  
        > > Marshall 
        > > 
        > > > 
        > > > Greg 
        > > > 
        > > > > Marshall 
        > > > > 
        > > > > 
        > > > 
        > > 
        >