Shibboleth Developers

[Nate Klingenstein <>]

> Really, the base distribution should have little (if any) connections
> to InQueue or any other supporting sites out there in cyberspace.  It
> should stand alone.  It should install and run.

If you want to download the IdP or SP just to build it and watch 
metadata refresh messages appear in the log files you can do so very 
easily, but if you want to make it do anything interesting it needs a 
partner in a transaction.  This isn't exactly unusual.  You can open a 
web browser and sit at about:blank all day, but eventually you'd like 
to access a webpage to see if it works and get some content.  You could 
grab Gnutella to build a listing of your files, but you want to connect 
and share.  Daemons aren't fun to install and poke without another 
service to speak to.

I'm eager to simplify the installation process, but not 
reductio-ad-absurdum.  This software is designed to interoperate with 
relying parties with which out-of-band, prior trust relationships have 
been established.  Anything we can do to get to the point where you're 
able to communicate "hello world" to a test or real server faster is 
good, but I'll always insist that should be the end goal of the 
installation process should be basic interoperation with a remote 
provider because that's what this stuff does.

> It should make no
> (unreasonable) demands from the human who has chosen to install it.
> Install time is not the time to insist that the installer know
> everything you (the developer) know about the software being
> installed.

If you can go through the installation process as it stands today and 
come out with knowledge of everything the software does, hat's off to 
you.  I've seen the exact opposite problem in the install-fests I've 
run.  If some mod_jk, Tomcat, firewall, Java problem, or typo doesn't 
catch them first -- none of which we can really do much about other 
than warn in really big bold letters and have explicit text on a 
version-by-version basis, or distribute IdP-in-a-box per Steven's 
earlier suggestions which only helps with a couple of those -- they 
complete the checklist with little to no difficulty only to be left 
stranded asking, "Now what?"

Nate.