All things related to multicast

[Bob Riddle <>]

I've found the rcBridge work by ANU is a wonderful tool for our 
multicast deprived community.  Most I2 universities seem to be 
"multicast enabled" at their edge router - but not much multicast flows 
into their network from the edge.  I've provide this rcBridge "service" 
to a number of universities during the National Internet2 Day and I'm 
contemplating making it available at some of the Abilene nodes.  The 
long term goal is to get the institutions to put up a rcBridge service 
close to their edge router - and hopefully it would eventually move 
further out on their local infrastructure as multicast capability moved 
"out".

Richard Mavrogeanes wrote:

> Bill,
>
> If *we* are those with high speed network connections to the the I2 that support multicast, then I'm afraid I'm not a *we* 
> and that is part of the problem.
>
> If the value of the network is equal to the square of the number of users, then the multicast network is not very valuable.  
>
> It would be fun to have a multicast video conference with the members of this 
> group, but after a trial I suspect it would
> be little used.  I fear that we would simply pat each other on the back, marval at how good it is, and then not use it again 
> for a long time. I've built such a system and it is in use in enterprise networks today (it uses VBrick appliances, and is therefore
> not free, but those with these boxes might be interested in testing it).
>
> I think the real interest would be in getting others to engage, but there is 
> a problem because multicast does not generally
> reach out to non-techie users.   The I2, for example, goes to ~203 institutions and (trust me on this) the reach of multicast within 
> those organizations is spotty at best.  
>
> We are multicasting live undersea reseach on the I2 (www.explorethesea.com), 
> including Dr. Bob Ballard's return to
> the Titanic, live on the I2 (currently, we are replaying a video from last 
> year for testing and I've be most interested if the
> folks on this list can see it...PLEASE let me know). 
>
> The marine science departments at Universities and the K-12 folks who "think" they have I2 access quickly 
> discover it does not work.  To some degree, this is all part of a grand plan...provide compelling content
> that makes users complain to their local IT staff.  We did this last year 
> with the Black Sea project too (www.expedition2003.org),
> but learned that too many local IT guys tell their users to go away and be 
> happy they have unicast.  It's not completely their
> fault...their network are often a mix of legacy hubs and uncontrolled wild growth. What I find is that the IT staff is very fragmented 
> in Universities.  Sure, the IT guy for the science dept. is willing to fix it, but the IT guy in the main building who 
> controls the access point has no interest. 
>
> I think that if we really want to see multicast take off, then there needs to 
> be a great public tunneling service so no one needs to be
> left out.  Local IT staff may then become motivated to deploy multicast as a 
> bandwidth-saving measure when their users are sucking up
> lots of high bandwidth unicast.  To many, multicast is "revolutionary" and what may 
> work best is "evolutionary" solutions that
> enable a migration.
>
> I'd love to see multicast-to-unicast reflector service on the I2 that offers 
> all mbone/I2 multicast content as unicast, but that times out
> after 60 seconds with a message that says "Sorry, your unicast service is 
> consuming too much bandwidth.  Multicast service is
> available to you without limitation. Please contact your local IT 
> department".  Then all it takes is plenty of compelling content, and
> there is a chance such content will appear when there is truly an audience 
> big enough.
>
> My 4 cents, this time.
>
>
> rich
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 	-----Original Message----- 
> 	From: Bill Owens [mailto:] 
> 	Sent: Thu 5/13/2004 5:07 PM 
> 	To:  
> 	Cc: 
> 	Subject: Re: Why don't we use multicast more often?
>         
>         
>
> 	On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 04:24:36PM -0400, Richard Mavrogeanes wrote: 
> 	> My two cents: 
> 	> 
> 	> Multicast is not used more often because: 
> 	> 
> 	> 1. The default condition of virtually all routers is to disable multicast. 
> 	. . . 
>
> 	All true, and I certainly know that multicast is not an easy thing to configure, manage and repair (or even understand!) but I'm intentionally preaching the choir here. I wasn't asking why Joe Public doesn't use multicast more often, I was asking why *we* don't use it more often. 
>
> 	My application, weekly recurring conference calls with a standing group of people, all at Internet2 sites, all of them advanced network users, seems like an ideal place to use multicast a/v tools - and yet, we don't. There must be dozens of similar conference calls every week; heck, Internet2 has their own conference system, and they wouldn't have bothered if they didn't use it a lot. Isn't there something wrong with that picture? 
>
> 	Bill. 
>
>  

--
Bob Riddle 
()
    Technologist,Internet2
3025 Boardwalk, Suite 100         Ann Arbor, Michigan  48108
Business Phone: 734.913.4257      Fax Number:  734.913.4255

"Math illiteracy affects 7 out of every 5 people"