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RE: [grouper-users] grouper ui visualization patches!

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  • From: "Black, Carey M." <>
  • To: " Mailing List" <>
  • Cc: "Redman, Chad" <>, "Hyzer, Chris" <>
  • Subject: RE: [grouper-users] grouper ui visualization patches!
  • Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2019 12:07:53 +0000

I am really looking forward to spending some time digging into this feature….. not yet there… but here are some thoughts…



I think having the legend key be part of the graph ( not just hover/help button) is a better idea. Especially if people are capturing the image to embed in (shutter) documentation/paper/powerpoint presentations. Unless the key is “very big/long” I would just include it or not in the graph. ( checkbox to display it ? ) 


Having the hover stuff is nice too when you are interacting with it live. So I would not rule that design out. But I would personally prefer the static legend before the hover feature.



I don’t know how common it is to have multiple subject sources, but it might be useful to know memberships per source for groups too.

                ( Which also gives you a “grouper objects” vs “subjects’ counts too. )


It may also be useful, in some cases to deal with “grouper Entities” counts as well.


Having a “short cut” way to include the “object type” would be a very good thing.

However, an attribute (AKA: meta data) selection that is more generic would be awesome too.

                I do have custom attributes that I would want reported as well. ( on folders and/or groups )

                And yea, you might need to deal with attributes assigned to attributes. J




Carey Matthew


From: <> On Behalf Of Redman, Chad
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2019 11:49 PM
To: Hyzer, Chris <>; Mailing List <>
Subject: RE: [grouper-users] grouper ui visualization patches!


I think these are all great ideas. I actually neglected to test the case of simple group loaders. I'm quite relieved that the arrow does the right thing and points to itself. However, it's a bug that they don't display membership counts, as I assumed they wouldn't have members. The line color for membership should also not be green.


Maybe the legend can go into a help popup or a hover label? It should be able to read the same properties as the graph to get the color scheme, so it will match.





From: [] On Behalf Of Hyzer, Chris
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2019 11:23 PM
To: Mailing List <>
Subject: RE: [grouper-users] grouper ui visualization patches!


Here is a real world example… I was asked to explain an app policy for being able to log in…  I included a marked up version below which might spark some ideas/conversation? 😊


I pulled up the visualization.  This is not a complex policy, but seeing the picture helped a lot.


From left to right…

  • Three affiliation groups and the loader employeeActiveFullTimePartTime are *basis* groups.  The affiliationConfig has the loader settings for affiliations.  The numbers are the sizes of memberships.
  • Those roll up in the employeeOrContractor *ref*erence group of size 45k.
  • The atlasProdLoader loads accounts from the application (which are created manually ad hoc).
  • Those two groups are intersected (blue lines) into atlasProdActive (has an account, and still works at penn).  729 people.
  • That is a member of the *policy* group atlasProdCanLogin (along with two others 732-729-1 (group membership).  Which means 732 entities can login (its actually less if you look at people with netIds, some groups in there)
  • That group is in the shib entitlement and is filtered in apache


Summary, no one without an account or who doesn’t work at penn can access the app.  The entire app is reverse proxied from apache which is entirely protected by shib so unauthorized entities also cant try to hack at the underlying server either.


I think this pic describes the policy so I am very happy with it… keep reading below…





I have to start off by saying I feel guilty having suggestions here since it is already so great.  But… cant help it 😊


I marked up this view with some ideas.  Note, if there is too much going on, things can be toggled in the preferences…   Also note: I didn’t have space to fit things in, so imagine better spacing, and consistent fonts etc…  and yes, I changed the numbers a tad, not important…



And so you don’t have to play the game where you have to see whats different:


  1. a loader group as a member should be a black line (right?)  green line means loader control?
  2. simple (non-listOfGroups) loaded groups should show membership count
  3. label loader groups
  4. label ref, basis, policy
  5. label composites
  6. maybe policy has a total and direct count?  Or all groups if that option selected?  I included on policy so you can see it’s the atlasProdActive and an includes list… best practice probably says have another group for that but sometimes people reduce group counts…
  7. Maybe show subject counts of non groups only?  Maybe this deserves more discussion, but I think non-groups are generally what is cared about
  8. Relevant key to diagram which includes explaining colors, labels, etc.  If a color isn’t used, don’t have it explained obviously…


Thoughts? 😊







From: Hyzer, Chris
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2019 5:48 PM
To: Mailing List <>
Subject: grouper ui visualization patches!


The whole Grouper team has been releasing a lot of compelling patches lately, but this one is particularly exciting.


Michael Gettes and Nick Ivanov had the simultaneous independent idea for this, and each implemented a proof of concept.  Grouper developer Chad Redman took what they did (parts of each POC) and added a lot of features, and incorporated this into Grouper.  Thanks to all three of you!


In the latest Grouper patches, and soon to be a grouper package, you can see graphically how a Group, Folder, or Entity is used in grouper.  This will show end users how a group is constructed (e.g. the policy), where a groups is used (e.g. if changes are needed), or how a folder is organized (we know it can get confusing).


This is on the demo server if you want to kick the tires.  Or install the patches or get the container.  Please give us any feedback as we plan to iterate on this soon.


Here are some examples:


How a folder is organized: (note, the objects are clickable to focus on a different location!)  Note, the numbers on the groups are the member count



Here is how a group is used and constructed




Here is how a user is visualized



There is also a text version of this analysis, for accessibility or other reasons



Here are some configurations:





Thanks again for the hard work of Chad, Michael, and Nick, and the speedy collaboration that took place.



Ps. patches:










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