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wg-multicast - IGMP considered harmful [Was: MSDP problems in the internet]

Subject: All things related to multicast

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IGMP considered harmful [Was: MSDP problems in the internet]


Chronological Thread 
  • From: Bill Nickless <>
  • To: John Zwiebel <>
  • Cc: Bill Nickless <>, Marshall Eubanks <>, Bill Owens <>, <>, <>
  • Subject: IGMP considered harmful [Was: MSDP problems in the internet]
  • Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 20:19:08 -0500

And now for something completely different: a more completely developed argument against IGMP snooping.

One of the reasons that unicast IP has been so successful is that it runs over many media. In other words, it can LEVERAGE existing infrastructure without change or modification:

o An RS-232C modem can be used to connect a teletype to a host
-OR- allow two hosts to exchange SLIP-encapsulated IP datagrams.

o A T1 CSU/DSU can be used to connect two PBX voice switches
-OR- allow two hosts to exchange HDLC-encapsulated IP datagrams.

o A DS-3 CSU/DSU can be used to trunk long-distance phone calls
-OR- allow two hosts to exchange HDLC-encapsulated IP datagrams.

o A Frame Relay VC can be used to carry IBM SNA traffic
-OR- allow two hosts to exchange HDLC-encapsulated IP datagrams.

o An ATM VC can be used to carry AAL4-encapsulated video
-OR- allow two hosts to exchange AAL5-encapsulated IP datagrams.

o An OC-192 SONET circuit can be used to carry 200,000+ phone calls
-OR- allow two hosts to exchange PPP-encapsulated IP datagrams.

o A Fibre Channel network can be used to attach disks to hosts
-OR- allow hosts to exchange FC-encapsulated IP datagrams.

o An Ethernet switch can be used by hosts to exchange IPX datagrams
-OR- allow hosts to exchange SNAP-encapsulated IP datagrams.

But throw multicast IP into the mix, and you lose. The same Ethernet switch that handles IPX, Apple Ethertalk, IPv4 unicast, IPv6 unicast, DECNet, and any number of other Ethernet-encapsulated protocols simultaneously will fall over and twitch pitifully when it's hit with IPv4 multicast traffic. Even media that can do point-to-multipoint natively (like ATM SVCs) rarely are leveraged to do IP multicast efficiently.

Why? Because the IP multicast community collectively has the hubris to require Ethernet switch vendors to become IPv4 IGMPv2 and now IGMPv3 aware. Otherwise, Bad Things happen on that infrastructure. Global flooding, switch processor overload, etc.

In lieu of anything better out there, I have to continue to push for IGMPv2 snooping support in Ethernet switches in order to meet the needs of my customers. But can I hold my breath for IGMPv3 deployment? That's where my optimism ends.

IETF would be better off working on an IGMP that would support the use of GARP/GMRP on Ethernet, as GARP/GMRP can (and is!) implemented in Ethernet switches without requiring them to understand IPv4 or IPv6 at all.

More generally, IGMPng should be media-independent, allowing for network elements (hosts, routers) to signal to the media in whatever way makes sense for that media.

Until we get there, I think intra-domain multicast users should be prepared to run something like Finlayson's CastGate, enhanced to handle SSM-style (S,G) semantics. Just as IPv6-over-IPv4 is being used to stitch together an IPv6 community while waiting on native IPv6 deployment, we should provide ways to do multicast-over-unicast until multicast is deployed widely.

The difference between IPv6-over-IPv4 and multicast-over-unicast is that the core of the native multicast network is already in place and operational, whereas the IPv6 default-free core has only recently come on line. In the multicast case it's the edges that need work (local area networks and hosts).
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Bill Nickless http://www.mcs.anl.gov/people/nickless +1 630 252 7390
PGP:0E 0F 16 80 C5 B1 69 52 E1 44 1A A5 0E 1B 74 F7





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