Megaconference

["Simon Horne" <>]

Christian

> Beyond your point about Windows being so difficult to master regarding
sound processing, it's a little bit scary to see that every *application*
needs a different hardware!

The inherent problem is that unlike MAC,  Windows does not control the
hardware so by default it has no hardware echo cancellation and every vendor
has their own software implementation which of course requires different
configured devices to work around. Oh it’s truly a mess. 


> Regarding Spranto, I gave it a (very short and incomplete) trial a couple
a weeks ago. I just called the Esnet MCU from a new iPAD (without remote
participants). The video was often 
> quite pixellated, under conditions where other systems (Cisco Jabber,
zoom.us, Lifesize softphone) are performing quite well.

And I certainly would expect that to be the case. Let me explain.  Firstly
zoom.us is a closed island so let's just forget about that.
Both these softphones are SIP based and almost certainly would require media
proxy if behind a NAT to reach a standalone endpoint or MCU. I think (I
could be mistaken) that video size received on the IPad to be around 352x288
(CIF) or 320x240 (QVGA). My testing maybe out of date so please someone
correct me if I am wrong?!?

Spranto utilizes direct media meaning there is absolutely no media proxying
in most cases even to existing MCU's such as Esnet. This allows the new IPad
to be tuned by default to receive a higher 640x480 (VGA)  and with the HD
switch turned on up to 1280x720 (720p) which is between 3 to 12 times the
bandwidth. The picture quality would be superior on the retina display but
it does comes at a heavy price and that is wifi range. It is very difficult
to maintain the higher bitrate over the wifi with the same distance from the
access point. We currently opt for quality over range however maybe we need
to add a 3 way switch in the settings  LD > SD > HD to compensate for
greater range. Thanks for the feedback.

For more information on direct media. 
http://hive.packetizer.com/users/h323forum/specifications/h323_nat_fw_soluti
on.pdf


Simon

-----Original Message-----
From: 

[mailto:]
 On Behalf Of Christian Helft
Sent: 02 December 2012 00:51
To: Simon Horne
Cc: 

Subject: Hardware vs software sound processing [was: [Megacon] Message from
Platinum sponsor (instructions and notes)]

Thanks a lot Simon. You make very good points and answer some of my long
lasting interrogations about software vs hardware echo cancellation.

I doubt that people not bearing hearing door slams appreciate too much
watching you with a headphone hiding your ears and mouth. And unfortunately
echo cancellers DON'T cancel door slams (maybe I'm wrong, do they have a
short range sensitivity like headphone microphones?). For me, pervasive
videoconferencing requires hands-(or more exactly ears- and mouth-)free user
experience, period (exit headphone). And my experience is that I'm using
less and less often an external echo canceller (sometimes I forget to hook
one, and ... no one complains!).

Granted, I'm using more Macs than Windows machines, and you're shedding a
new light on my understanding of the mysteries of software vs hardware
implementation of echo cancellation. Now I understand why my iPad will
probably never see an echo canceller during its whole life.

Beyond your point about Windows being so difficult to master regarding sound
processing, it's a little bit scary to see that every *application* needs a
different hardware!

Regarding Spranto, I gave it a (very short and incomplete) trial a couple a
weeks ago. I just called the Esnet MCU from a new iPAD (without remote
participants). The video was often quite pixellated, under conditions where
other systems (Cisco Jabber, zoom.us, Lifesize softphone) are performing
quite well.

Regards,

Christian.
 
Le 1 déc. 2012 à 14:03, "Simon Horne" 
<>
 a écrit :

> Christian
> 
> I think you might be a little misdirected. The issue is not the software
but
> the curse of the OS, location or just simply the hardware itself.
> 
> People in Professional video conferences do not want to get blasted in
their
> ear when you receive an email or IM or hear the door slam down the hall or
> people talking noisily in the other room. That can get really taxing on
the
> other participants in the meeting. This is an inherent problem with ANY PC
> application.  People using Skype might think it is ok to occasionally get
> loopback,  beep of your IM or external noise but people who are using
> profession video equipment like Polycom or Tandberg room systems are not.
> Windows PC's are terrible to get software echo cancellation/noise
reduction
> consistently right. Mac and iOS are much much better. For instance Spranto
> iOS client don't need any such devices it works really well.
> 
> For professional video conferencing on PCs, companies like ClearOne offer
a
> range of device tailored to PC applications to provide professional
crystal
> clear audio like a professional room system.
> Here are some of their range.
> For General Softphones
> http://www.clearone.com/products_chat50
> For Skype
> http://shop.skype.com/phones/speakerphones/clear-chat-60/
> For Lync
> http://www.clearone.com/products_chat70u
> 
> I highly recommend the Logitech BCC950. It comes with a 1080p camera and
> high quality speakerphone and a PTZ that can be controlled remotely during
a
> call.
> http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/Conferencecam?crid=1252
> We will be giving one of them away as part of our package at megacon.
> 
> Simon
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 
> 
> [mailto:]
>  On Behalf Of Christian Helft
> Sent: 01 December 2012 16:33
> To: Simon Horne
> Cc: 
> 
> Subject: Re: [Megacon] Message from Platinum sponsor (instructions and
> notes)
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Le 30 nov. 2012 à 23:15, "Simon Horne" 
> <>
>  a écrit :
> 
>> 2.       Recommend Headphones or echo cancelling speakerphone. (for
> everyone’s sanity)
>> 
> 
> Can you comment on the fact that any reasonably recent videoconferencing
> "softphone" (you name it: VSee, zoom.us, Jabber video, Messages (for Mac),
> Vid, etc. (even Skype)) doesn't require external echo cancellation any
more,
> while there seems to be a malediction with truly H323 compliant systems?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Christian. 
> --
> Christian Helft LAL - IN2P3 - CNRS
> LAL Bat 200 BP 34 91898 Orsay CEDEX France
> +33 1 64 46 84 12
> Mobile +33 6 32 90 97 09
> http://www.lal.in2p3.fr
> 

--
Christian Helft LAL - IN2P3 - CNRS
LAL Bat 200 BP 34 91898 Orsay CEDEX France
+33 1 64 46 84 12
Mobile +33 6 32 90 97 09
http://www.lal.in2p3.fr