Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

grouper-users - Re: [grouper-users] adhoc group memberships, what to do when IDM Roles change

Subject: Grouper Users - Open Discussion List

List archive

Re: [grouper-users] adhoc group memberships, what to do when IDM Roles change

Chronological Thread 
  • From: Steven Carmody <>
  • To: David Langenberg <>, Chris Hyzer <>
  • Cc: Grouper-Users <>
  • Subject: Re: [grouper-users] adhoc group memberships, what to do when IDM Roles change
  • Date: Fri, 08 May 2015 15:38:51 -0400

thanks for all the suggestions !

It sounds, tho, like all the suggested approaches rely on the Admin of each Group "doing the right thing". That has me more than a little concerned ... we're now keeping accounts alive (ie they can authenticate) after separation for for anywhere from 180 months to lifetime for much of our population; I'd like to find an approach that didn't rely on all the Admins doing the right thing.

This problem strikes me as being very similar to the Rulesets inside our IDM system that already drive all of the Provisioning to down stream systems. Those Rules are triggered by a wide variety of "changes" on the user record in the Person Registry. I'd like many (or most) of the changes that trigger a reevaluation of provisioning and rights/privileges to potentially trigger a reexamination of adhoc groups.

On 5/8/15 12:43 PM, David Langenberg wrote:
We created a Group Type of Closure which admins can use to ensure that
ad-hoc memberships are removed upon finalization of our account closure
process. Note, this doesn't help at all with the changing-department
problem, just the final termination problem. We encourage folks to
intersect with our departmental groups to help catch those cases.


On Fri, May 8, 2015 at 9:39 AM, Chris Hyzer

We have a few options at Penn:

1. Intersect the employee group for auto-removal
2. Rule on employee group for auto-removal or auto-end date in the
near future
3. Rule on org list so if removed from org due to leaving Penn or
switching orgs:
- remove from group
- -or- send email so someone can review
4. There is a deprovisioning process where one step is for a Group
administrator to review memberships/privs and remove all but ones
that are needed

I could imagine a Grouper rule like #3 above where if someone
changes orgs or is removed from all orgs that it determines groups
which aren't exempt from the process which have the person as an ad
hoc member, puts an end-date on membership (few days?) and emails
the UPDATERS/ADMINS of the group letting them know they can remove
the end date if they like...


-----Original Message-----



On Behalf Of Steven
Sent: Friday, May 08, 2015 9:41 AM
To: Grouper-Users
Subject: [grouper-users] adhoc group memberships, what to do when
IDM Roles change


We've delegated to Depts the authority to create and manage adhoc groups
to meet their local needs. We're now trying to figure what to do when a
"significant" change occurs in a person's relationships with Brown, and
their Roles. Examples could include a staff person moving to a new job
in a different dept, or a student becoming an alum (we now support
lifetime accounts for students/alumns).

We also allow people to authenticate for 18 months after separating from
Brown, but remove all of the privileges that we know about (except being
able to login to the HR/payroll system in order to obtain a W-2). "Doing
something" about adhoc group memberships would be part of removing

Our current best thought (which isn't really very good) is to have the
IDM/Person Registry/Provisioning Rules "tell" a process what change has
occurred. That process would obtain all the adhoc groups that this
person is a member of, and send an email to the owners of each group and
the person saying that unless a certain action is taken by a certain
date the person will be removed from the group (default is to remove).
(Note -- people have a number of group memberships based on their
affiliation and role; as their status in the relevant Business system is
updated these memberships will be changed automatically; I'm only
worried about adhoc memberships.)

We expect that other schools are already starting to encounter this
problem, tho, and we're interested in hearing how other campuses are
approaching this situation.

thanks in advance !

David Langenberg
Identity & Access Management Architect
The University of Chicago

Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.16.

Top of Page