wg-multicast - Whither multicast?
Subject: All things related to multicast
List archive
- From: Bill Owens <>
- To: ,
- Subject: Whither multicast?
- Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2012 13:21:09 -0500
We're just starting to think about the next generation of network gear for
NYSERNet, and trying to keep an open mind about it. As a specific example
we'll be looking at several Layer 2/3 equipment vendors, and expect they'll
have differing levels of support for some of the features that we take for
granted in the R&E world, but that aren't widely used in the larger Internet.
If past experience is a guide, number one on this list will be multicast
routing, particularly interdomain IPv6 multicast routing. The NYSERNet
network has supported IPv6 multicast for years now; it even worked, the last
time I checked ;) Sadly, running a test is the only way to know, since nobody
has ever made use of IPv6 multicast for anything other than a demo. Looking
at global adoption, a check of our routing table tells the sad story:
R&E IPv4 prefixes: 14394 unicast / 3483 multicast (24%)
R&E IPv6 prefixes: 1660 unicast / 139 multicast (8%)
I'd make the argument that inertia accounts for the majority of the IPv4
multicast adoption. Someone at a campus wanted to use a multicast-enabled
app, or see a particular streamed event, and the campus and regional enabled
multicast routing in support of them. Naturally they never turned it off
again, even if the interest was for just that one event. Certainly it isn't
being used very heavily now; I just checked our egress routers and here's
what showed up:
Active IP Multicast Sources - sending >= 1 kbps
Group: 224.2.127.254, (sap.mcast.net)
<various sources sending rather more quickly than they should>
Group: 228.7.7.3, (?)
<several members of a Eucalyptus cluster>
Group: 227.255.255.254, (?)
<two machines at louisville.edu, apparently SMART boards running
SynchronEyes software and with the TTLs set higher than default>
Group: 224.1.1.1, (?)
Source: 134.207.12.65 (pike.cmf.nrl.navy.mil)
<couldn't figure out what this one was up to>
So out of the four we have SAP, which is certainly legitimate if somewhat
less than useful most of the time, two applications that wanted to use local
multicast but were written by morons who couldn't be bothered to learn how
multicast addresses are supposed to be used, and one mystery contestant.
Nothing that would make me want to enable multicast, frankly.
It seems clear that the larger networking world has bypassed native multicast
in favor of various kinds of streaming and application-layer multicast (or
multicast-like) transmission. There appear to be many reasons why this
happened, not least the inability of the standards community to find a stable
and scalable answer for wide-area any-source multicast.
I'm not about to suggest that we drop support for wide-area IPv4 multicast.
There are legitimate uses still being made of it, even though there aren't
any in evidence on our network this Monday morning. I'm really beginning to
wonder whether IPv6 multicast has a future, though. It seems to me that we're
now seeing the other side of the adoption curve for wide-area multicast in
general, and as a result we aren't going to have even the low volume of
interesting applications for IPv6 multicast that drove the original adoption
for IPv4.
I won't even go so far as to suggest that we 'early adopters' turn off
interdomain IPv6 multicast, although nobody would notice. But if anyone is
actively using interdomain IPv4 multicast, they really should get to work
moving their application over to IPv6 before the tiny number of networks who
support it decide that it's just another source of complication, bugs and
potential security holes, and dump it.
Bill.
- Whither multicast?, Bill Owens, 12/17/2012
- Re: Whither multicast?, Mark Boolootian, 12/17/2012
- Re: Whither multicast?, Gurcharan S. Khanna, 12/17/2012
- Re: Whither multicast?, Bill Owens, 12/20/2012
- Re: Whither multicast?, Gurcharan S. Khanna, 12/17/2012
- Message not available
- Re: Whither multicast?, Bill Owens, 12/17/2012
- Re: Whither multicast?, Dan Pritts, 12/17/2012
- Re: Whither multicast?, Leonard Giuliano, 12/17/2012
- Re: Whither multicast?, Bill Owens, 12/20/2012
- Re: Whither multicast?, Leonard Giuliano, 12/20/2012
- Re: Whither multicast?, Richard Machida, 12/20/2012
- Re: Whither multicast?, Mark Boolootian, 12/20/2012
- Re: Whither multicast?, Richard Machida, 12/20/2012
- Re: Whither multicast?, Leonard Giuliano, 12/20/2012
- Re: Whither multicast?, Bill Owens, 12/20/2012
- Re: Whither multicast?, Leonard Giuliano, 12/17/2012
- Re: Whither multicast?, Mark Boolootian, 12/17/2012
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