perfSONAR User Q&A and Other Discussion

["Rafael Costa" <>]

Greetings,

I think that Loukik pointed exactly at the way i was talking above. We
must understand that end users want to do just "next -> next ->
finish". 

Usually they give up at a installation with "fragmented" things to do
and too much steps and go to another tool or software that is easier to
install. 

The need of a easier install is a reality, but i think that create a
"apt-get" like installation is not the best way. As Roman said, the
user must answer a set of questions... 

Maybe we can suggest some install ways and ask to the users here which one could be the best for then.

Regards,

Rafael

On 8/18/06, Roman Lapacz <> wrote:

Loukik Kudarimoti wrote:
> Roman Lapacz wrote:
>> Nicolas Simar wrote:
>>> Hi Roman,
>>>
>>> can you explain me the difference between the two? In particular in
>>> which case you would go for one or the other.
>>>
>>> How does it solve the issue raised by Chris and Warren? Does it
>>> install all with a single click?
>> I'm not sure about single click but a user could have all required
>> things in one package and at least some of them could be configured
>> (for example eXist could have an account and needed collection, Axis
>> could be put in the application server).
>>
>> The second package is what we have now. Just pS services.
> I more or less agree but I still think we can achieve this in one
> package (without causing any confusion to the user). Here is how I
> think it can be done:
>
> The user can interact with the script in 4 ways in total:
>
> 1) ./perfSONAR pre-install
>
> This will ask if the user already has ant, tomcat, axis and exist.
> * If the user says 'yes' to any of them, it will ask the path where it
> is located.
> * If the user says 'no' to any of them, it will ask if the user wants
> to install them manually or download them automatically and install it.
> ** If the user chooses 'Manually', the script will ask the user to run
> the same script again after installing the dependency. It will also
> suggest download sites where the user can find the software for
> downloading
> ** If the user chooses  'Automatically' the script will  know a list
> of sites where the software is available and it will download the
> software and install it.
>
> The script will also prompt the user for the port number to run tomcat
> on. eXist can run on tomcat itself and hence on the same port as tomcat.
>
> 2) ./perfSONAR configure
> The script configures the service (i.e. put the xml file in exist, log
> properties, etc)
>
> 3) ./perfSONAR install
> At this point the script knows where all the packages are located. It
> simply installs perfSONAR (i.e. copies all necessary jar files to
> tomcat) and deploys the service
>
> 4) ./perfSONAR test
> This script helps in testing the service. The test scripts will have
> the capability to test each part of the service. So, if the user comes
> back to us with support questions, a quick and complete diagnosis of
> the installation can be made. The test will ask the user what he/she
> is interested in testing.
>
> Just by typing ./perfSONAR, the script would do all the above in
> sequence. There would then be no classpath configuration (as ant takes
> care of that)
>
> The fact is, we have a lot of ant targets which can already do a
> majority of the above tasks. In perfSONAR 1.0, it was decided not to
> use ant but instead go with replacement perl scripts. While I
> understand the easiness of using perl scripts, I really think it needs
> to be a combination of both (i.e., perl scripts are simply making use
> of ant targets underneath once ant is installed)
>
> What are your comments on these steps? Do you think it would then be
> simple and easy to install perfSONAR?

Sounds OK but I still believe that we need a separate package which
contains all prerequisites and required very minimal set of questions
(use of default parameters). Something similar to "one click".


Roman


>
> Regards,
> Loukik.
>
>>
>> Roman
>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Nicolas
>>>
>>> Roman Lapacz wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Reading recent comments I believe that the next release should be
>>>> represented by two packages:
>>>> - one which will contain pS services, application server (tomcat or
>>>> jetty), eXist (it might be run in the application server without
>>>> the need of GUI installation) or even JRE
>>>> - one which will contain only pS services as it is now
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A user could choose which package is better for her/him.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chris Welti wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm afraid I have to agree with Warren here.
>>>>> I tried to get the java perfSONAR suite 1.0 running investing more
>>>>> than a
>>>>>  day and I couldn't even get axis and exist running properly.
>>>>> Unless there is a really simple way of installing perfSONAR, you're
>>>>> not going to get this tool widely used.
>>>>> And by simple, i mean _really_ simple, like a debian package that can
>>>>> be installed via apt-get install, or something like make / make
>>>>> install,
>>>>> or just a script that does ALL the installation tasks for you.
>>>>> The point here is that I want to be able to just execute ONE programm
>>>>> that does the installation for me. No worries about which paths to
>>>>> use
>>>>> for the different tools, version numbers of programs, setting
>>>>> environment
>>>>> variables, configuring port numbers to use, and so on. There are
>>>>> way to many steps involved in the installation process that can
>>>>> go wrong.
>>>>> The problem is of course that you are depending on
>>>>> java/tomcat/axis/exist
>>>>> and you don't have control about it's configuration/installation.
>>>>> Well, that's the downside of not having a stand-alone application.
>>>>> The perl installation was much less of a hassle and is still running
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> probably you are talking about python  RRD MA :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Roman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> fine here at SWITCH.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>> Warren Matthews wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi All
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hate to whine but Eric and Jeff say I should call it feedback
>>>>>> and send
>>>>>> it to the list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We've had a terrible time with perfSONAR. I want to give up.
>>>>>> Actually we
>>>>>> haven't even made it to trying to install perfSONAR. We haven't
>>>>>> even got
>>>>>> the prerequisites installed yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The real problem is we have no java expertise. I'm trying to get
>>>>>> another
>>>>>> student but that'll be at least a few more weeks. The other
>>>>>> problem is
>>>>>> we have to run RHEL. It is mandated by our director;
>>>>>> Unfortunately our
>>>>>> site license does not include the application server channel, so we
>>>>>> don't get tomcat. Frankly, we're also not really interested in
>>>>>> understanding the packages and being experts on various server
>>>>>> software
>>>>>> tools. We're network support staff, we want to measure and
>>>>>> trouble-shoot
>>>>>> the network. Trying to get perfSONAR set up has been a real pain.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps you will say we should wait for better documentation. But we
>>>>>> would like to be an early adopter because we need to offer
>>>>>> monitoring
>>>>>> services for our global campus. I would like to use perfSONAR so in
>>>>>> future we can use data from other networks. Furthermore I claim most
>>>>>> network admins are not going to try as hard as we did. If it doesn't
>>>>>> just work they won't use it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Warren Matthews, International Research Network Initiatives,
>>>>>> Georgia Institute of Technology.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Adventure is a sign of incompetence. If you have an adventure,
>>>>>> you're
>>>>>> doing something wrong. If you really plan things out then you
>>>>>> don't have
>>>>>> adventures - The great polar explorer Vilhjalmur Stefanson.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>


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Atenciosamente,

Rafael Costa
NUPERC - UNIFACS
(71) 8805-4840