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Re: [grouper-users] RE: grouper and workflow / access forms

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  • From: "Gettes, Michael" <>
  • To: David Langenberg <>
  • Cc: Chris Hyzer <>, " Mailing List" <>
  • Subject: Re: [grouper-users] RE: grouper and workflow / access forms
  • Date: Mon, 10 Sep 2018 18:40:43 +0000
  • Accept-language: en-US
  • Ironport-phdr: 9a23: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

If you agree it can be done with GSuite and O365 then this is really all about the capability to integrate with forms/signing/workflow products and not so much about which one.  As long as this is done in a fashion making it easier to integrate the bevy of these products, I’m all for it.

Thanks Chris!


On Sep 10, 2018, at 2:35 PM, David Langenberg <> wrote:

Ok, I see the desire, still, I’m not 100% sold on the docusign thing, esp when you can do the same thing free with GSuite (Forms+AppsScripts) or O365 (Sharepoint + Flow).  How hard would it be to put in special Grouper support for those non-subscription-ish (yeah yeah O365 is not free) instead?  Would those meet the need?
David Langenberg
Asst Director, Identity Management
The University of Chicago
From: Hyzer, Chris <> 
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2018 12:51 PM
To: David Langenberg <>;  Mailing List <>
Subject: Re: grouper and workflow / access forms


> From: Greg Haverkamp <>

Hellosign is interesting, thanks for mentioning

From: David Langenberg <>


> Other than “gee, isn’t this neat?” what’s the use-case? 


We have a lot of use cases.  e.g. Someone wants access to warehouse student data, they fill out a form, their manager approves, the data steward approves, gets routed to something automatic or to someone to grant something.  Should also be put in Grouper either way.  We are implementing a new student system and they have a lot of requirements like this.  Its nice to have a paper trail of who requested access, when, who approved it, when it was granted, etc.  Sometimes the form needs comments about why access is needed, maybe some qualifiers like which rows or columns of data to see, etc.


Ive been thinking about a built-in way to do this, and I think it needs some sort of form. We could do this with PDFs in S3 buckets but it seems a little clunky and users would have an easier time with something like Docusign or Hellosign, and we wouldnt have to make all the stuff that manages the forms when done...





From: David Langenberg <>
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2018 1:19 PM
To: Hyzer, Chris; 
 Mailing List
Subject: RE: grouper and workflow / access forms
Other than “gee, isn’t this neat?” what’s the use-case?  I know Docusign is a Net+ offering, but it’s definitely not on a deployment level that, say, Duo or AWS is.  Wouldn’t it be easier (and cheaper) to just extend attestation to include a more robust approval workflow with approvals stored in the grouper audit logs?
David Langenberg
Asst Director, Identity Management
The University of Chicago
From:  <> On Behalf Of Hyzer, Chris
Sent: Monday, September 10, 2018 11:36 AM
 Mailing List <>
Subject: [grouper-users] grouper and workflow / access forms
Im not 100% sure it’s the right choice, but hypothetically lets say we integrated Grouper with Docusign.
- Someone clicks on a form in the Grouper UI
- It calls a Docusign API to setup an instance of the form
- User fills out basic form fields and e-signs the document
- The approvers at various roles would be sourced from groups (e.g. the student-data steward group [registrar]).  One from each group signs the form
- At the end the requestor would be added to a group or groups
- Docusign stores the history of the forms
I don’t know if they have discounts for higherEd/nonprofit, but it seems like the cost for this would be for the Basic API, about $1/form ($600/year for 500 forms/year) or ($5k/year for 6k forms/year)
Might need to buy some user licenses to make/manage forms: ($1k for 2-3 users depending on standard or pro)
Who would be interested in using this if we integrated with Docusign?  Any other ideas for forms/workflow products where the licensing is reasonable and there is a full featured REST API?  We would try to make this pluggable of course…

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