Grouper Users - Open Discussion List

[Chris Hyzer <>]

Yes, sorry about that, you are correct.  Somehow I got it correct in the docs 
though... :)

Speaking of this, I added a possible to do for a future release to detect if 
the group name pattern is incorrect: "try the name pattern after loader is 
done, and if the number of groups is less than the number of groups in this 
round of loader, set the job status to WARNING with a descriptive message"

Kind regards,
Chris

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loris Bennett 
> [mailto:]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2008 2:41 AM
> To: Chris Hyzer
> Cc: Grouper Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [grouper-users] Grouper-WS: Strategies for moving
> groups/stems?
>
> That sounds great (I am assuming s/table pattern/name pattern/).
>
> On Tue, 2008-11-11 at 10:22 -0500, Chris Hyzer wrote:
> > I can easily add a global flag.  Here is my (amended) current plan
> which I am halfway done implementing, and this is my last development
> item for 1.4 :)
> >
> > 0. If a group is not mentioned in a loader SQL_TABLE, and it doesn’t
> match the name pattern, or the name pattern does not exist, then it
> will not change
> > 1. If a group is not mentioned in a loader SQL_TABLE, but it does
> match the table pattern, then its members will be removed (no matter
> what)
> > 2. If a group is not mentioned in a loader SQL_TABLE, but it does
> match the table pattern, and the global switch says no, it wont be
> deleted
> > 3. If a group is not mentioned in a loader SQL_TABLE, but it does
> match the table pattern, and the global switch say ok, and the group is
> used somewhere (member or composite of another group), then it will not
> be deleted
> > 4. If a group is not mentioned in a loader SQL_TABLE, but it does
> match the table pattern, and the global switch say ok, and the group is
> not used anywhere, but it is include/exclude, and there are members in
> the include or exclude list, then everything will be deleted except
> that include or exclude list
> > 5. If a group is not mentioned in a loader SQL_TABLE, but it does
> match the table pattern, and the global switch say ok, and the group is
> not used anywhere, but it is include/exclude, and there are no members
> in the include or exclude list, then all related groups will be deleted
> (include/exclude, requiredGroups, etc).
> >
> > Also, this is leaves a blank stem, that blank stem will be deleted
> too...
> >
> > Sound good?
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Loris Bennett 
> > > [mailto:]
> > > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 9:39 AM
> > > To: Chris Hyzer
> > > Cc: Grouper Users Mailing List
> > > Subject: RE: [grouper-users] Grouper-WS: Strategies for moving
> > > groups/stems?
> > >
> > > Would it be possible to make the removal configurable? It has
> occurred
> > > to me that there could be a situation in which a group is only
> > > temporarily empty and is still needed. Implementing a mechanism for
> > > defining which groups should be deleted and which shouldn't might
> be a
> > > bit complicated, but it would be handy if the deletion could at
> least
> > > be
> > > turned on and off globally.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Loris
> > >
> > > On Mon, 2008-11-10 at 09:43 -0500, Chris Hyzer wrote:
> > > > I was planning to do this (probably today) for 1.4...
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Loris Bennett 
> > > > > [mailto:]
> > > > > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 4:38 AM
> > > > > To: Chris Hyzer; Grouper Users Mailing List
> > > > > Subject: RE: [grouper-users] Grouper-WS: Strategies for moving
> > > > > groups/stems?
> > > > >
> > > > > Could that be included in 1.5?
> > > > >
> > > > > Until it is available I shall implement a solution using
> getGroups.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > > Loris
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, 2008-11-07 at 09:46 -0500, Chris Hyzer wrote:
> > > > > > I could do that in the loader... if a group is not used
> anywhere,
> > > > > remove it.
> > > > > > Also, there is a web service to list the groups an entity is
> the
> > > > > member of: getGroups:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > https://wiki.internet2.edu/confluence/display/GrouperWG/Get+Groups
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Chris
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Dr. Loris Bennett 
> > > > > > > [mailto:]
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 3:25 AM
> > > > > > > To: Chris Hyzer
> > > > > > > Subject: RE: [grouper-users] Grouper-WS: Strategies for
> moving
> > > > > > > groups/stems?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Chris,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have been talking to some colleagues about our needs for
> > > removing
> > > > > > > members from groups which no longer appear in the query.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Am I correct in thinking that a missing group would have
> all
> > > its
> > > > > > > members
> > > > > > > removed but the group itself would not be deleted?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In this case we would then need to implement some mechanism
> to
> > > > > check
> > > > > > > whether the empty group is used in any other groups before
> we
> > > could
> > > > > > > actually remove it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Looking briefly at the web service I couldn't see a method
> > > which
> > > > > would
> > > > > > > give me the groups an entity is a member of, so I assume I
> > > would
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > go through all the groups and check if the empty group is
> used
> > > > > > > anywhere.
> > > > > > > Or am I missing something?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Regards
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Loris
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > PS I noticed the release notes for Grouper 1.4 were updated
> > > > > recently.
> > > > > > > Is
> > > > > > > the actual release date imminent?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, 2008-10-17 at 05:07 -0400, Chris Hyzer wrote:
> > > > > > > > Ok, so the two requested changes to the loader are:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 1. Dry run mode where it just print out what it will do,
> but
> > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > actually do it
> > > > > > > > 2. Attribute which has the SQL "like" pattern of the
> group
> > > names
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > loader job is responsible for, so it can remove memberships
> > > from
> > > > > groups
> > > > > > > not listed in the query
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Are you also interested in the idea of auto-creating the
> > > > > composite
> > > > > > > groups, perhaps with a built-in group type?  And the loader
> > > having
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > way to associate a created group with that type, which
> would
> > > auto-
> > > > > > > create those composites?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As far as timeline, these changes should be there in the
> next
> > > > > release
> > > > > > > which is the end of the month.  And if not, then shortly
> > > > > thereafter.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Also we discussed the group detail being created by web
> > > service,
> > > > > > > which you said was not as important.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > > Chris
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > From: Loris Bennett 
> > > > > > > > > [mailto:-
> > > berlin.de]
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 4:40 AM
> > > > > > > > > To: Chris Hyzer
> > > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [grouper-users] Grouper-WS: Strategies for
> > > moving
> > > > > > > > > groups/stems?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 11:59 -0400, Chris Hyzer wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Deleting empty groups my hand would be OK for us.
> We
> > > are
> > > > > > > already a
> > > > > > > > > > > little chicken about the idea of updating our basic
> org
> > > > > groups
> > > > > > > 100%
> > > > > > > > > > > automatically and hoping that nothing breaks in the
> > > > > composite
> > > > > > > > > groups.
> > > > > > > > > > > Ideally we would like to generate some sort of
> summary
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > changes
> > > > > > > > > > > before these are actually propagated. This would
> give
> > > us an
> > > > > > > > > overview of
> > > > > > > > > > > the changes occurring and enable us to anticipate
> the
> > > > > effects
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > > derived
> > > > > > > > > > > groups.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Are you saying that all grouper loader changes should
> > > > > generate a
> > > > > > > > > summary, or only when you delete groups?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > At least initially, we would like a summary of all
> group
> > > > > additions
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > deletions in our org data. However, I see this as
> > > essentially
> > > > > > > > > independent of grouper-loader, although I suppose it
> could
> > > be
> > > > > built
> > > > > > > > > into
> > > > > > > > > grouper-loader as a dry run mode. If deletion were by
> hand,
> > > the
> > > > > > > summary
> > > > > > > > > would also serve to keep tabs on which groups were in
> fact
> > > > > empty
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > needed to be removed. But as I said, I don't think a
> > > summary
> > > > > > > feature is
> > > > > > > > > necessarily something grouper-loader should have.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Dr. Loris Bennett (Mr.)
> > > > > > > Freie Universität Berlin
> > > > > > > Zentraleinrichtung für Datenverarbeitung / Computer Center
> > > > > > > ZEDAT
> > > > > > > Compute & Media Service
> > > > > > > Fabeckstr. 32, Room 221
> > > > > > > D-14195 Berlin
> > > > > > > Tel ++49 30 838 51024
> > > > > > > Fax ++49 30 838 56721
> > > > > > > Email 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Web www.zedat.fu-berlin.de
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >