Grouper Users - Open Discussion List

[Loris Bennett <>]

That sounds great (I am assuming s/table pattern/name pattern/). 

On Tue, 2008-11-11 at 10:22 -0500, Chris Hyzer wrote:
> I can easily add a global flag.  Here is my (amended) current plan which I 
> am halfway done implementing, and this is my last development item for 1.4 
> :)
> 
> 0. If a group is not mentioned in a loader SQL_TABLE, and it doesn’t match 
> the name pattern, or the name pattern does not exist, then it will not 
> change
> 1. If a group is not mentioned in a loader SQL_TABLE, but it does match the 
> table pattern, then its members will be removed (no matter what)
> 2. If a group is not mentioned in a loader SQL_TABLE, but it does match the 
> table pattern, and the global switch says no, it wont be deleted
> 3. If a group is not mentioned in a loader SQL_TABLE, but it does match the 
> table pattern, and the global switch say ok, and the group is used 
> somewhere (member or composite of another group), then it will not be 
> deleted
> 4. If a group is not mentioned in a loader SQL_TABLE, but it does match the 
> table pattern, and the global switch say ok, and the group is not used 
> anywhere, but it is include/exclude, and there are members in the include 
> or exclude list, then everything will be deleted except that include or 
> exclude list
> 5. If a group is not mentioned in a loader SQL_TABLE, but it does match the 
> table pattern, and the global switch say ok, and the group is not used 
> anywhere, but it is include/exclude, and there are no members in the 
> include or exclude list, then all related groups will be deleted 
> (include/exclude, requiredGroups, etc).
> 
> Also, this is leaves a blank stem, that blank stem will be deleted too...
> 
> Sound good?
> 
> Chris
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Loris Bennett 
> > [mailto:]
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 9:39 AM
> > To: Chris Hyzer
> > Cc: Grouper Users Mailing List
> > Subject: RE: [grouper-users] Grouper-WS: Strategies for moving
> > groups/stems?
> >
> > Would it be possible to make the removal configurable? It has occurred
> > to me that there could be a situation in which a group is only
> > temporarily empty and is still needed. Implementing a mechanism for
> > defining which groups should be deleted and which shouldn't might be a
> > bit complicated, but it would be handy if the deletion could at least
> > be
> > turned on and off globally.
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Loris
> >
> > On Mon, 2008-11-10 at 09:43 -0500, Chris Hyzer wrote:
> > > I was planning to do this (probably today) for 1.4...
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Loris Bennett 
> > > > [mailto:]
> > > > Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 4:38 AM
> > > > To: Chris Hyzer; Grouper Users Mailing List
> > > > Subject: RE: [grouper-users] Grouper-WS: Strategies for moving
> > > > groups/stems?
> > > >
> > > > Could that be included in 1.5?
> > > >
> > > > Until it is available I shall implement a solution using getGroups.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > > Loris
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 2008-11-07 at 09:46 -0500, Chris Hyzer wrote:
> > > > > I could do that in the loader... if a group is not used anywhere,
> > > > remove it.
> > > > > Also, there is a web service to list the groups an entity is the
> > > > member of: getGroups:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > https://wiki.internet2.edu/confluence/display/GrouperWG/Get+Groups
> > > > >
> > > > > Chris
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Dr. Loris Bennett 
> > > > > > [mailto:]
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 3:25 AM
> > > > > > To: Chris Hyzer
> > > > > > Subject: RE: [grouper-users] Grouper-WS: Strategies for moving
> > > > > > groups/stems?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Chris,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I have been talking to some colleagues about our needs for
> > removing
> > > > > > members from groups which no longer appear in the query.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Am I correct in thinking that a missing group would have all
> > its
> > > > > > members
> > > > > > removed but the group itself would not be deleted?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In this case we would then need to implement some mechanism to
> > > > check
> > > > > > whether the empty group is used in any other groups before we
> > could
> > > > > > actually remove it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Looking briefly at the web service I couldn't see a method
> > which
> > > > would
> > > > > > give me the groups an entity is a member of, so I assume I
> > would
> > > > have
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > go through all the groups and check if the empty group is used
> > > > > > anywhere.
> > > > > > Or am I missing something?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Loris
> > > > > >
> > > > > > PS I noticed the release notes for Grouper 1.4 were updated
> > > > recently.
> > > > > > Is
> > > > > > the actual release date imminent?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, 2008-10-17 at 05:07 -0400, Chris Hyzer wrote:
> > > > > > > Ok, so the two requested changes to the loader are:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. Dry run mode where it just print out what it will do, but
> > > > doesn't
> > > > > > actually do it
> > > > > > > 2. Attribute which has the SQL "like" pattern of the group
> > names
> > > > that
> > > > > > loader job is responsible for, so it can remove memberships
> > from
> > > > groups
> > > > > > not listed in the query
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Are you also interested in the idea of auto-creating the
> > > > composite
> > > > > > groups, perhaps with a built-in group type?  And the loader
> > having
> > > > a
> > > > > > way to associate a created group with that type, which would
> > auto-
> > > > > > create those composites?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As far as timeline, these changes should be there in the next
> > > > release
> > > > > > which is the end of the month.  And if not, then shortly
> > > > thereafter.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Also we discussed the group detail being created by web
> > service,
> > > > > > which you said was not as important.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > Chris
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: Loris Bennett 
> > > > > > > > [mailto:-
> > berlin.de]
> > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 4:40 AM
> > > > > > > > To: Chris Hyzer
> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [grouper-users] Grouper-WS: Strategies for
> > moving
> > > > > > > > groups/stems?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Thu, 2008-10-16 at 11:59 -0400, Chris Hyzer wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Deleting empty groups my hand would be OK for us. We
> > are
> > > > > > already a
> > > > > > > > > > little chicken about the idea of updating our basic org
> > > > groups
> > > > > > 100%
> > > > > > > > > > automatically and hoping that nothing breaks in the
> > > > composite
> > > > > > > > groups.
> > > > > > > > > > Ideally we would like to generate some sort of summary
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > changes
> > > > > > > > > > before these are actually propagated. This would give
> > us an
> > > > > > > > overview of
> > > > > > > > > > the changes occurring and enable us to anticipate the
> > > > effects
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > > > derived
> > > > > > > > > > groups.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Are you saying that all grouper loader changes should
> > > > generate a
> > > > > > > > summary, or only when you delete groups?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > At least initially, we would like a summary of all group
> > > > additions
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > deletions in our org data. However, I see this as
> > essentially
> > > > > > > > independent of grouper-loader, although I suppose it could
> > be
> > > > built
> > > > > > > > into
> > > > > > > > grouper-loader as a dry run mode. If deletion were by hand,
> > the
> > > > > > summary
> > > > > > > > would also serve to keep tabs on which groups were in fact
> > > > empty
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > needed to be removed. But as I said, I don't think a
> > summary
> > > > > > feature is
> > > > > > > > necessarily something grouper-loader should have.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > Dr. Loris Bennett (Mr.)
> > > > > > Freie Universität Berlin
> > > > > > Zentraleinrichtung für Datenverarbeitung / Computer Center
> > > > > > ZEDAT
> > > > > > Compute & Media Service
> > > > > > Fabeckstr. 32, Room 221
> > > > > > D-14195 Berlin
> > > > > > Tel ++49 30 838 51024
> > > > > > Fax ++49 30 838 56721
> > > > > > Email 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Web www.zedat.fu-berlin.de
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
>