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RE: [grouper-dev] Re: [grouper-users] Dynamics groups in grouper

Chronological Thread 
  • From: "GW Brown, Information Systems and Computing" <>
  • To: Bill Kasenchar <>, ,
  • Cc:
  • Subject: RE: [grouper-dev] Re: [grouper-users] Dynamics groups in grouper
  • Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2008 16:55:13 +0100

I'm not sure about best practices, but the approach I've been using is to separate group and basic privilege setup from addition of members to groups.

I determine the difference between what is in Grouper and what our student records system says about who is on which course and then do the add/delete member operations required. I'm not running this regularly at the moment but would expect to do it nightly, and possibly more often.


--On 03 April 2008 11:44 -0400 Bill Kasenchar

Are there examples or best practices in writing loaders that keep
memberships of groups based on sql up to date? E.g. classlists that are
based on student system data?

-----Original Message-----
From: GW Brown, Information Systems and Computing
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 6:13


Subject: [grouper-dev] Re: [grouper-users] Dynamics groups in grouper

Hi Arnaud,

One of the major features of Grouper is that all group memberships are
`flattened` in the database so that complex nesting and group math do not
need to be calculated at run time. A `dynamic` group would pose problems
in Grouper because you could not work out the indirect memberships if you
tried to make it a member of another group.

What you could have is a loader which examines all subjects and applies a
set of rules to assign them to static groups. How often you need to run
the loader would depend on how often attributes change. Ideally the loader
would be able to query for subjects which had actually changed since the
last run.

Another approach would be for Grouper to have a `dynamic` type, which
would prevent that Group from being used for membership calculations - or
as a subject for privilege assignment, but which could be provisioned to
LDAP where it could be represented as a dynamic group. However, this would
likely be a big change to the API and make it more difficult for client

I have CC`ed this response to the dev list so we can carry on the
discussion there.


--On 20 February 2008 11:54 +0100 Arnaud Deman

Hi Gary,

Thanks for your quick answer.

This mix was our first idea but now we as the uPortal applications
(Moodle for instance) access the groups via LDAP we would like to have
also the PAGS groups in our LDAP. The second point is that we are
thinking about using Grouper as the group manager of the whole
information system and not only for uPortal. The fact that we can't list
the members of PAGS groups can also be a problem.

I think I will try to write an extension of Grouper to handle this kind
of groups. I don't know if someone else could be Interested by this.
I may switch the the grouper devel list to ask the question.

Have a good day,

GW Brown, Information Systems and Computing a écrit :
Hi Arnaud,

Grouper does not support dynamic groups. You can, however, mix and
match group stores in uPortal so you should be able to use a
combination of PAGS (Person Attribute Group Store) for dynamic groups
and Grouper for static groups.


GW Brown, Information Systems and Computing

GW Brown, Information Systems and Computing

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