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RE: [grouper-dev] Re: [grouper-users] Dynamics groups in grouper

Chronological Thread 
  • From: Bill Kasenchar <>
  • To: "GW Brown, Information Systems and Computing" <>, "" <>, "" <>
  • Cc: "" <>
  • Subject: RE: [grouper-dev] Re: [grouper-users] Dynamics groups in grouper
  • Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2008 11:44:17 -0400
  • Accept-language: en-US
  • Acceptlanguage: en-US

Are there examples or best practices in writing loaders that keep memberships
of groups based on sql up to date? E.g. classlists that are based on student
system data?

-----Original Message-----
From: GW Brown, Information Systems and Computing
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 6:13 AM


Subject: [grouper-dev] Re: [grouper-users] Dynamics groups in grouper

Hi Arnaud,

One of the major features of Grouper is that all group memberships are
`flattened` in the database so that complex nesting and group math do not
need to be calculated at run time. A `dynamic` group would pose problems in
Grouper because you could not work out the indirect memberships if you
tried to make it a member of another group.

What you could have is a loader which examines all subjects and applies a
set of rules to assign them to static groups. How often you need to run the
loader would depend on how often attributes change. Ideally the loader
would be able to query for subjects which had actually changed since the
last run.

Another approach would be for Grouper to have a `dynamic` type, which would
prevent that Group from being used for membership calculations - or as a
subject for privilege assignment, but which could be provisioned to LDAP
where it could be represented as a dynamic group. However, this would
likely be a big change to the API and make it more difficult for client

I have CC`ed this response to the dev list so we can carry on the
discussion there.


--On 20 February 2008 11:54 +0100 Arnaud Deman

> Hi Gary,
> Thanks for your quick answer.
> This mix was our first idea but now we as the uPortal applications
> (Moodle for instance) access the groups via LDAP we would like to have
> also the PAGS groups in our LDAP. The second point is that we are
> thinking about using Grouper as the group manager of the whole
> information system and not only for uPortal. The fact that we can't list
> the members of PAGS groups can also be a problem.
> I think I will try to write an extension of Grouper to handle this kind
> of groups. I don't know if someone else could be Interested by this.
> I may switch the the grouper devel list to ask the question.
> Have a good day,
> Arnaud.
> GW Brown, Information Systems and Computing a écrit :
>> Hi Arnaud,
>> Grouper does not support dynamic groups. You can, however, mix and
>> match group stores in uPortal so you should be able to use a
>> combination of PAGS (Person Attribute Group Store) for dynamic groups
>> and Grouper for static groups.
>> Gary

GW Brown, Information Systems and Computing

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