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concerns re: Appendix A: formalization of (1/p) limit


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  • From: "Lawrence D. Dunn" <>
  • To: , "Lawrence D. Dunn" <>
  • Subject: concerns re: Appendix A: formalization of (1/p) limit
  • Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 00:02:27 -0600

Stas, (& others)

(This was one of my action items from last time.
Stas, Steven and I did go over most of this at I2 joint-techs
meeting. But I had scribbled this stuff on paper, and promised
Stas I'd type it up).

Per our conversation at joint-techs, here's the text starter-questions
from our (1/p) formalization discussion.

1. Is the information metric correct? We discuss the error rate "p",
but what about the information contained in the ACK's. Since the
algorithm takes action on each ACK reception, it is deriving some information
per-packet from the received ACKs.
Also, are we correctly characterizing "p" for both congestive and non-congestive
loss? It's pretty easy to think about small "p" for non-congestive loss.
But if there is congestion then the number of dup-ACKs will go up until
the sender backs off. So during that time, the experienced "p" would
be possibly higher, and the backoff-signals more frequent.
I'm not sure that behavior is modelled in the Shannon formula.
(i.e. "p" is time-varying around the loss event, etc)

2. alpha ("a") <1 or >1? text has examples of <1 (.5, .82), but formalization
slips in a>1 as basic assumption. If you're trying to make a point that
a>1 is the key factor that makes things degrade, and therefore cannot be used,
should highlight that assertion. As written, there's no hint to believe that a>1 is
any more/less important than c>0. They seem like they're just
boundary-condition constants, rather than critical "I'm about to show that
for a>1 things fall apart" components.

3. Does p^(a-1) / log2 (p) --> infinity? Seems like maybe not.
Top term -> 0, bottom term -> large_negative.
(other side issue- lost a "-" sign on first page).

4. meta-issue: Does it matter if precision degrades with low-loss?
(It may be that some constant-number of bits of accuracy is sufficient).

4.1 What *should* rate be with zero congestive loss (i.e. all loss is
non-congestive)? Compare examples when Tx interface is
less_than or greater_than bottleneck rate.

5. "Bottleneck router needs to communicate...". Really? If it's non-congestive
loss, then routers never signal anything. There is a confusing mix of discussion
the centers on congestive loss, versus other parts of the text where non-congestive
loss seems to be the focus. So is the discussion about congestive, or
non-congestive loss? Or both equally, etc.

Larry
--



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