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[grouper-dev] Draft Minutes: Grouper Call 23-May-2012

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  • From: Emily Eisbruch <>
  • To: Grouper Dev <>
  • Subject: [grouper-dev] Draft Minutes: Grouper Call 23-May-2012
  • Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 14:40:03 -0400

 Draft Minutes: Grouper Call 23-May-2012


Chris Hyzer, Penn (stand-in chair)
Michael Girgis, University of Chicago
Shilen Patel, Duke
Steve Olshansky, Internet2
Emily Eisbruch, Internet2, scribe

*New Action Items*

[AI] (TomZ) email the group on his work related to the 2.1.1 release.

[AI] (Shilen) will review and comment on the issue of "Managing Unix Commands with Grouper Permissions"

[AI] (Chris) upgrade the Grouper demo to the latest Grouper version 2.1

[AI] (Chris) send Michael details on accessing the Grouper demo

[AI] (Michael) will look into a screen sharing method (WebEx?) and set up a 90 minute meeting with Chris for Grouper training

[AI] (Michael) will look into conducting user interviews

[AI] (Michael) will review the meeting notes with TomB to identify areas of possible controversy

*Carry Over Action Items*

[AI] (TomB) follow up with ScottK about cloning approaches.

[AI] (TomB) will connect TomZ with the U. Chicago Drupal use case on the topic of representing/provisioning role/perm info.

[AI] (TomZ) add info to the wiki regarding doing testing on provisioning  

[AI] (TomZ) will look into representing/provisioning role/perm info: how should it be "provisioned"? Or should all consumers call back into Grouper?

[AI] (TomZ) will put test data in the Grouper demo to show using an LDAP source.

[AI] (TomZ) will review the Grouper LDAP Loader doc and provide feedback to Chris, possibly with lessons learned from LDAPPC work. 

[AI] (Emily) Initiate an overall Grouper Features table with brief descriptions and links to documentation NOT DONE

[AI] (All) review the Grouper roadmap to be sure it is up to date

[AI] (Rob) will follow up with Danno on obtaining the server for the Continuous Integration Environment.  

[AI] (Everyone) review Rob's chapters and give him feedback on the Grouper Users List.


Grouper v2.1.1 Release

If TomZ's work for the Grouper 2.1.1 release is complete, then we can move forward with the release.

[AI] (TomZ) email the group on his work related to the 2.1.1 release.

UI Planning

Steps Suggested by TomB:

. identify a small set of audiences for each of which we'll have UI support
. for each of those audiences, identify a small set of the most important things they need to do in that UI
. decide which of these UIs need both browser and mobile versions
. ask Michael Girgis to suggest next steps from there: wireframes? Assign AIs to get it done.
Multiple UIs?

Q: Right now we have admin/expert UI and we have more basic, LITE UI
Going forward, do we need a separate Grouper UI for different audiences?

A: Not sure. The current UIs are actually the same web applicaiton, different screens, but linked together.
You can potentially get back and forth from Admin UI to the LITE UI

Having the two UIs somewhat separate means you can hide the ADMIN UI screens from the LITE UI user who just wants to define a group, and add memberships, but not create a folder, for example.  

Right now it's possible to handle permissions on the LITE UI, but that turns out to be complicated and not used much. 

- perhaps just have a single UI, and the advanced (admin) features are available but hidden
- not immediately obvious
- but an expert user would be able to get to the more advanced feature screens

- suggestion that the admin/heavyweight UI should have  a tree control on the left
- then a group screen with buttons for  memberships and privileges
- click one of those buttons and show the memberships
 - with option to show the attributes and description
- the admin UI should not necessarily need to hide everything
- meanwhile the simple membership screen only shows group memberships and that's it

Start with UW Prototype UI?

- everyone seems to like the UW Prototype UI (demoed at 2012 SMM)

- could make sense to take the UW Prototype and use it as a springboard
- maybe we don't have to start at the very beginning
- could do user testing using those wire frames that they (UW) have

- perhaps we can start with the UW prototype, but we will need to make some changes
- we should take pieces form the UW Prototype UI and augment with other things we need
- for example, one of the simplifications of the UW prototype UI was to not have any folders on the UI
- it has only have groups
- this might suit UW, but at other sites, you can create other types of objects inside of a folder besides just a groups

Add New Features?

Q: Michael:
How much of the Grouper UI redesign involves incorporating new features/functionality versus making what's already there easier?

- we need to replace all the features that now exist with the new UI
- but if there are new things that will add value, then yes we should add features

- could go into a phase 2

- Chris: would like to add  a couple new features
- such as "favorites" as shown on the hand-drawn screens on the bottom of this page:

- ability to keep track of recent activity and then customize the front page experience
- if the UI remembers what they did recently, we can save the user time
- also have a left bar, like UW prototype UI, except it's a tree control with nested folders
- the UW Prototype UI shows all the groups someone is in or has permissions for 
- but for an admin, it's not practical to show all groups, there could be hundreds
- maybe just show the folders that are applicable
- then allow the user to drill down or filter to find the desired group(s)

- it will take time to program the tree control feature
- especially if we use Dojo
- would be good to create a prototype of the tree control to show users and get feedback

Q: what is the timetable?

A: Maybe target to complete phase 1 by March 2013.


1. Central administrations

2.  Application senior developers, who are setting up an application to be interfaced with Grouper 

The above two audiences are both "experts" and would probably have similar needs in the UI

3. People who just want to add or delete a group member or a permission.

4. People who want to add or delete themselves from a group (at sites where an opt-in / opt-out is possible)

Mobile UI First?

There is the possibility to focus on the mobile UI first,
as described here:

Chris :
- mobile UI capability for Grouper is nice to have, but not an essential requirement
- most often, people doing admin on a group will be near a computer

Q: Would it make more sense to target LITE users for using mobile UI?
A: yes

Most important tasks

 LITE UI user Top Tasks:

- adding and removing memberships

- searching for groups

- Opting in and out of a group

- Note : often the person using the LITE UI features  will be doing a specific thing in Grouper then returning to their own application

Issues around the current LITE UI
Q: Are there known frustrations  w the LITE UI as it is now?

A: There was too much metadata, but this has been addressed already,  now it's possible to optionally hide everything but group name.

- Also, using roles/permissions in the LITE UI is confusing. See comment from UCLA in row 8 of the community requests table

Q: So maybe the LITE UI just needs a refresh and it's OK for most users?

Chris: Except for the issues with roles/permissions, we don't have a lot of complaints from the list on the LITE UI.

- However, accessibility of LITE UI could be an issue
- issue with accessibility of tooltips
- The LITE UI uses components from HTMLX
- not as accessible as jQuery UI or Dojo

 ADMIN UI user Top Tasks:

- search
- create and edit objects
- assign privileges
- manage / assign atrributes
- look at audit logs and do point in time auditing
- move and copy an object (folder, group, attribute definintion, permission definition)

Q: what are top frustrations with the current ADMIN UI?

- Too many clicks to accomplish a task
- The screens change to do simple things
 - each time you search it refreshes entire screen
- hard to get back to where you started

- Chris envisions having an advanced search button 
- you can do a more advanced search using a modal HTML dialogs, allowing filtering by source
- if combo box can't do it for you
- unfortunately, modal dialogs are complicated for accessibility and mobile
- but advantage of modal dialogs is you never navigated away from the underlying screen
-  tree structure can also help with navigation issue, but tree will not replace the importance of search

Moving Forward:

[AI] (Chris) upgrade the Grouper demo to the latest Grouper version 2.1

[AI] (Chris) send Michael details on accessing the Grouper demo

[AI] (Michael) will look into a screen sharing method (WebEx?) and set up a 90 minute meeting with Chris for Grouper training

[AI] (Michael) will review the meeting notes with TomB to identify areas of possible controversy


Linux Permissions

[AI] (Shilen) will review and comment on the issue of "Managing Unix Commands with Grouper Permissions"

Next Call: Wed. 6-June-2012 at noon ET

Emily Eisbruch, Technology Transfer Analyst
office: +1-734-352-4996 | mobile +1-734-730-5749

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  • [grouper-dev] Draft Minutes: Grouper Call 23-May-2012, Emily Eisbruch, 05/30/2012

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